Dr. Kami Pothukuchi | Detroit FRESH
In part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Kami Pothukuchi of Wayne State University, we explore the technical challenges of healthy product sourcing, the motivation of store owners, and the occasional crazy moment that defines the corner store vibe… For part 1, go here…
BC: Given how complex selling healthy snacks let alone healthy produce can be, what’s the overriding motivation of the store owners in your program? Is it higher margins? Good press?
KP: Store owners range from really committed to “I’m just doing this to get some positive attention”. These owners are in their store from 9am to 9pm, cooped up in that little bulletproof glass cage and it’s such a stressful environment, no glamour at all. They know all their business depends on addictions. They are not seeing the cream of society or whatever. So when we come in and give them positive messages and feedback you would be amazed at how receptive they are.
I have an African-American store owner who never carried produce before. It’s a tiny, tiny store and they started carrying produce with our help. Most of the time the [owner and patron] have very minimal conversations, the customer puts the money [on the counter] and there is no real interaction beyond that. One day, a customer threw the door open and saw [the produce] and said, “Thank you!” He met [the grocer's] eye and said in a very clear voice, “Now, we feel that you care about us.”. And from then on, the store owners were hooked.
BC: How do you see Detroit FRESH syncing in with the other food work and ag-based initiatives going on in Detroit?
KP: It would be great if gardeners within the same neighborhoods could supply the stores but financially the equation is not there yet. If we want gardeners to make money on their excess produce, farmer’s markets are a better focus and a better deal than corner stores. If someone is producing more and doesn’t have a focus of making the most money for their product, we would to like build that connection.
The key right now is two fold. One is distribution; we really need to flesh out our distribution network with alternative sources, whether that’s mobile markets, increasing the capacity of produce wholesalers, or growing farmers in the area – both the city as well as the region – who can supply to multiple channels. The wholesalers in Eastern Market district are suffering; for them to have to deliver as well, that adds on a layer of complexity.
BC: Is there not a separate distribution infrastructure in place in Detroit?
KP: Yes, there is infrastructure and we’re doing much better than other cities in that regard. Wholesalers in Eastern Market will deliver, but they want to have at least a $75 per order for it to make financial sense for them and most of our corner stores can’t sustain that. So what about those orders that are closer to $50, $40? Who can pick that up? We’re working with Peaches and Greens, which is a mobile market, and we’re paying their mileage for their truck in order to service [our stores].
Ultimately, it’s about increasing wholesale merchant’s capacity because there are wholesalers at Eastern Market that will deliver. What can we do to bring their point from $75 to $50. The other issue is to get people to eat healthy snacks. The message about fruits and vegetables is getting out there. Healthy diets, that’s a much bigger problem. Drop the cola, drink water. Drop the chips, eat an apple. You want to substitute the dollars for food that are bad in these corner stores and use them for good.
BC: Talk to me about where the Detroit corner store fits in the taxonomy of corner stores? What are the distinctive elements of Detroit corner store?
KP: I’ve visited stores in Cleveland, in Philadelphia, in Chicago and other places and it’s really very astounding, the first thing that hits you is the bulletproof glass. You see that in other places but it’s in EVERY store you go to here. That’s really important to note about Detroit, the atmosphere of fear and distance that’s created by the reception area.
I have noticed that when you have a couple running a store, if the wife is there then a lot of attention is placed on cleanliness. Also if there is produce, it is more visible. The relations are different between community members are a little friendlier.
There are some stores that are WIC stores that will tell you right in your face, “I have a WIC contract but I’m not able to sell fruits and vegetables” and in this place, in Michigan, if you try to report them, you’ll get to a voicemail box that’s full. Now my strategy is, “hey, I can report you, but I won’t because I want to work with you.”
Photo courtesy of Detroit FRESH/SEED Wayne
BC: One of the things we like to promote here at BC is the quick and affordable meal that can be constructed with ingredients from the bodega. Do you have a favorite recipe you think would be a good example of that?
KP: We haven’t really gone there because we want to work with what the neighborhood can sustain and what the store can sustain. For a store that is operating at a high level, we want to be able to offer events in their neighborhood to build more support for them: cooking demonstrations, nutrition education, maybe some EBT recruitment, some diabetes screenings, blood pressure, those kind of things. We haven’t done that yet, but that’s where we want to go. We’ve been thinking about recipes in that context not things we could share with products. It’s something to think about, but we haven’t done that yet. Our focus is really healthy snacks.
BC: (Laughing) I meant you personally. Is there a dish you’d make with bodega ingredients?
KP: (Laughing) Oh yes! Depending on how big the store is and how much they carry, yeah! If they have corn, that’s easy. Boil the corn. If they have peppers and onions, I’d stir fry the peppers, toss the onions in, then add some chili powder, some coriander powder and a small dash of garam masala and a pinch of turmeric. I come from the Indian cooking tradition so I have those spices at home. I don’t expect people in the neighborhoods to have that, but I think we could get most of those things at some of our stores. Just don’t ask me to cook brussel sprouts! You’ll never find them at one of our stores [laughing]…
BC: Last thing. What’s the craziest thing you’ve seen in a Detroit corner store?
KP: Oh my god! I’ve seen a vibrating condom.
BC: Oh lord. Was it colored?
KP: I saw the text and just averted my eyes. Definitely don’t want to go there.
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